[Sosfbay-discuss] progressives and libertarians ... a match made in heaven?

[Andrea Dorey]

I'm curious about what name this guy had in mind.  What's wrong with  
"Green?"

I would never want to see us accept money from Corporations.  Family  
businesses that are green, no problem.  But corporation implies  
corpus, embodied, and finally personhood as corporations finally were  
able to claim circa 1900. This is when they began to cause the most  
damage to living beings and the environment.

Incorporation also allows ownership without responsibility, eternal  
life, adoption of parent companies and offspring, and an ability to  
conduct any kind of legal business without being limited to the  
business that they chartered to do.  The latter allows a company that  
makes nuts and bolts to morph into biologicals and/or hospital  
administration.

These internationals now define us not as persons but as consumers  
with little power to stop their destruction.  I think we should avoid  
corporate contributions.  I also think we should try to remove their  
charters in states where the power still rests with the sovereignty  
of the people.
Andrea

On Dec 20, 2006, at 12:07 PM, JamBoi wrote:

> I strongly agree that there is plenty 'o room in America's political
> marketplace for a progressive party to spring up and have possibly  
> more
> growth potential than we Greens have.  We Greens have chosen some
> specific strategies that in some ways limit our appeal.
>
> For one thing we insist on maintaining our own name - Green Party.  I
> don't know how many times recently Dems have said to me "Do you think
> the Greens might be amenable to changing their name so that they'll
> appeal more to disaffected Dems?"  (To which I answer, 'of course not
> silly! We Greens have our own unique identity.  We are an  
> international
> movement with deep roots and our own unique political theory and
> economic theory.  Its not like we are just Dem lite and that  
> swiching a
> name would make any difference or sense.  And its not like we are so
> tactically oriented that we would put out front organizations like the
> Communists and Democrats do - ie MoveOn.org.')
>
> For another we have chosen the very narrow road of taking no corporate
> funding.  That is a huge decision that effects every aspect of our
> viability as a party in the United Corporations of America (our new
> name, UCA instead of USA).  We have chosen to unilaterally disarm
> ourselves.  I fully support this decision while at the same time I
> acknowledge that it is a decision that many other liberals and
> progressives are not willing to make.
>
> For another we have this strong emphasis put on decentralization,
> grassroots democracy and concensus.  That is so counter to the way
> other parties work (with the possible exception of the libertarians  
> and
> libertarian socialists) that I realize its a major cultural shift for
> people entering our midst.
>
> So yes, I do believe there's plenty 'o room for a another progressive
> party to spring up and possibly even be quite successful in America.
> That is definitely not to say that I would ever join such a party.  I
> have chosen the Green Party for very definite reasons: I strongly  
> agree
> with our 10 Key Values.  I don't see any other potential progressive
> party taking the idealistic stands that we are.  For instance I think
> they would likely be okay with corporate money unlike us.  So I'd
> welcome the competition!  Frankly I think it would sharpen us to have
> some coopetition going.
>
> Dems have painted a big target on us, so that its hard for us to gain
> Dem converts.  Okay fine, that's just a fact of life.  For us to grow
> we need to teach everyone (Dems included) about our unique qualities
> and that we are not merely a progressive party.  Many aspects of a
> progressive party could be achieved without it being a truly 'Green'
> party.  We need to differentiate ourselves in people's minds so they
> can make an informed choice about where to put their energy into.
>
> If they don't want to join us explicitly, that's okay with me, but I'd
> still like to build coalition with other forward thinking lefties,
> liberals, moderates (like me) and even conservatives.  That is the  
> only
> way we can really succeed.
>
> Green solidarity!
>
> Drew
>
> --- Fred Duperrault <fredd at freeshell.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> In the Twenties, Thirties and Forties there was a succesfulwisconsin
>> Progressive party led by the La Follets.  Gaylor Nelson was a
>> Progressive until the party broke up. Then he joined the Democratic
>> Party. However, most joined the Republican Party. (The Democratic
>> Party
>> was very weak at that time.)
>>
>> Republican Leroy Gore, who started the "Joe Must Go" campaign to
>> recall
>> Sen. Joe McCarthy, had been a Progressive.
>>
>> I think a Progressive party, with a similar philosophy to the Green
>> Party, might have more potential for growth. Democrats would have
>> less
>> reluctance to join. for one.
>>
>> What d'y'all think?
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>   From a list in Vermont that includes Greens and Progressives.
>> (NOTE: Vermont has a Progressive Party that is bigger than
>> the Vermont Green Party, and has won some state legislature
>> seats.)
>>
>> Gerry
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> I've long believed that liberatarians and progressives
>> (small 'l' and 'p', not captalized) had more in common
>> with each other than generally realized.  I found the
>> following to be an interesting adjunct to that concept:
>> "Libertarian Party candidates may have cost Senators
>> Jim Talent (R.-Mo.) and Conrad Burns (R.-Mont.) their
>> seats, tipping the Senate to Democratic control."
>>
>>       http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=14106
>>
>> I bring this up to point something else I believe: while
>> the liberatarians are willing to flout their muscle and
>> get pushier because of the political power implied by the
>> above article, I find most progressives get timid under
>> similiar circumstances. Time for the agressive progressive
>> maybe?
>>
>> Of course this is all just my opinion, but it's a strong one,
>>
>> Rama
>
> ___________________
>
> JamBoi
> Jammy The Sacred Cow Slayer
>
> "Live humbly, laugh often and love unconditionally" (anon)
> http://dailyJam.blogspot.com
>
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