[Sosfbay-discuss] Greens are Progressive and Populist (was Re:Humanists; was Re: Dems won't try ...)

Sun Apr 15 13:00:05 PDT 2007

I, like Gerry, have been a member of the American Humanist  
Association through the local group here in the Bay Area.  Humanists  
vary from Atheists through Agnostics, Goddess and Wicca persuasions,  
and Unitarian Universalists, the longtime Christian-lite beliefs.  I  
think a heavy-duty fundamentalist (add any brand religion here) would  
have a rough time sitting through some of the meetings and seminars  
that the humanist communities sponsor.  BTW, Hammurabi had a code  
that is the source for the more modern moral codes.

See on the web:
The Code of Hammurabi
Excerpt of laws from the sixth king of the Amorite Dynasty of Old  
Babylon.
www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/ world_civ_reader_1/ 
hammurabi.html - 10k -

Much of later legal and religious societies built on this elegant set  
of morals but, in most cases, added little of substance that deviated  
from the original.  Most fundamentalists seem to be blank on this  
fact.  Goes along with their insistence that the U.S. was built on  
the Christian religion by religious men!  Not the men whose works I  
have read!  Most of them were wary of any religion.

BTW, I agree that Atheists can be very dogmatic, like many  
fundamentalists!  I'm an Agnostic, open to proof of the existence of  
a deity, but willing to concede that it is impossible to prove s/he/ 
it does NOT exist.  Reality-based and science educated, I understand  
the implications of the latter.
Andrea

On Mar 29, 2007, at 12:03 PM, Duende wrote:

> I enjoyed your post Drew.
>
> The one thing the Greens may need to impress on others more is that
> they are populists. When the uninformed (or informed by the PR of the
> empire)  see Green Party they'reir thinking. Yeah, save the tree but
> screw me. BAck to impressing the interdependence that being for a
> tree is surely being for all mankind and if you're for mankind you
> must consider the tree as well. That inter dependance, be it as a
> spiritual/metaphysical axiom or the natural laws (remember that
> party?) of a functioning biosphere seem to get lost so much of the  
> time.
>
> Paz
>
> Duende
>
> On Mar 29, 2007, at 11:36 AM, JamBoi wrote:
>
>> "Humanist" has an overly-specific meaning if we were looking for a
>> term
>> to apply to Greens in general.  Humanists reject the transcendent  
>> (ie.
>> faith) and focus on human reason and human self-determination.  There
>> are a number of Humanists in the GPSCC and for myself I feel very
>> comfortable hanging with Humanists and I share many of their values.
>> However being a person of faith that term wouldn't describe me
>> unless I
>> said I'm a Christian-humanist and even that wouldn't quite do it for
>> me.  I'm definitely a humanitarian though! :-)  Among other things  
>> I'm
>> a Celtic-Christian-existialist Green Humanitarian. :-)
>>
>> Progressive works for me.  Liberal does not because I'm not in
>> agreement with the tenents of Liberalism (or Conservativism for that
>> matter).  There's a vast difference IMO between Liberal and
>> Progressive
>> and the two are by no means synonyms.  Liberals can be Progressives,
>> yes, but Progressive covers a much broader group of both Moderates
>> (like myself) and further left than Liberal types.
>>
>> Greens are also Populist.  We are for The People! We have our  
>> roots in
>> earlier Progressive Populist movements in the US and around the  
>> world.
>> Greens are a unique species that are not easily identified on the
>> reductionistic left-right spectrum.  The increasingly popular move in
>> Political Science to represent parties in a two dimensional space  
>> that
>> includes a Y axis to show Populist/Libertarian v Totalitarian
>> tendencies puts us closer to the Populist/Libertarian end.
>>
>> We are fairly similar to the Libertarian Socialists (like the
>> Zapatistas) except we're explicitly dedicated to nonviolence whereas
>> they are not.  We are truly the children of the nonviolence
>> movement of
>> MLK and Gandhi IMO.
>>
>> Impeach for Peace!
>>
>> Drew
>>
>>
>> --- Duende <egroups at duendevision.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 28, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Gerry Gras wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Duende wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm uncomfortable with the label of liberal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Liberal" became a 4 letter word for me after Gore attacked
>>>> Nader in late October, 2000.  Now I have mixed feelings.
>>>>
>>>>> or even progressive anymore.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm still ok with "progressive", but I think I see your point.
>>>>
>>>>> I'm more prone to use the label "humanist".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been a member of the local humanist organization
>>>>      http://humanists.org/
>>>> and the national organization
>>>>      http://www.americanhumanist.org/index.html
>>>> for years.  At least 3 other GPSCC members have participated.
>>>
>>> I met a guy who was a Humanist and recommended that site. I never
>>> checked it out since he was such a fundamentalist in his atheism  
>>> that
>>>
>>> I was a bit turned off about what he was trying to tell me.
>>>>
>>>>> Let me define
>>>>> humanist as someone concerned with the survival of the human race
>>>>> (self) and realizes that this survival requires cooperation as
>>>>> opposed to competition. A humanist recognizes or at least
>>>>> acknowledges the interdependence of all living thing and sees his
>>>>> survival as linked with the survival of others.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The dictionary says:
>>>>      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/humanist
>>>> The local humanist group says:
>>>>      http://humanists.org/hum_def.htm
>>>> The American Humanist Association says:
>>>>      http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/faqs.php
>>>>      http://www.americanhumanist.org/3/HumandItsAspirations.php
>>>>
>>>> None of these talk specifically about the survival of the human
>>>> race.  (I assume they prefer a more positive approach).  But I
>>>> think most humanists are quite concerned with the current state
>>>> and do recognize the interdependence.
>>>
>>> I want to define humanist as recognizing that interdependence as  
>>> part
>>>
>>> of the mission statement..not as an aside that some members  
>>> recognize
>>>
>>> it.  Other wise we end up with species arrogance which has created a
>>>
>>> lot of suffering all the way around. The interdependance is a must
>>> since our humanity is reflected in this.
>>>
>>> And the repetition of the word  "supernaturalism" through out their
>>> manifestos. it seems they're so afraid of fundamentalist religions
>>> that it appears they've closed the door on spirituality and the meta
>>>
>>> physical as well. This limits the human experience as well as
>>> possibilities.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Also, the word
>>>>> "humanist" make it pretty hard for the right to attack
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know about that.  The right has vociferously attacked
>>>> "secular humanists".  And the American Humanist Association
>>>> fights for separation of church and state and does other
>>>> things as well that the right would not like.
>>>
>>> Ahhhh. They're stuck in their own anti supernaturalism dogma. Our
>>> laws (state) are going to express our morality as a people. What  
>>> they
>>>
>>> need to do is inject their own morality (dignity for human kind)  
>>> into
>>>
>>> the laws rather than trying to take the "church's" out... mater of
>>> fact make the churches morality which is supposed to be based on a
>>> man who told us to love one another, make that morality the one
>>> expressed in our laws.
>>>
>>> I'll need to request that they qujit using the name of Humanist  
>>> until
>>>
>>> the can get over this personality clash :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Becoming the change that you want to see is a lot more than just
>>>>> recycling and riding a bike.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For sure!
>>>>
>>>> In fact, I believe in the assumptions held by those who talk
>>>> about "The Great Turning", namely that the human race is facing
>>>> an unprecedented situation, where things will get either much
>>>> worse or much better, there is nothing in between.  And to get
>>>> much better requires a lot of changes.
>>>>      http://www.joannamacy.net/html/great.html
>>>>      http://thegreatturning.net/
>>>
>>> I'm definitely going to check out the sites on "The Great Turning".
>>> There's definitely something in the air (other than pollution) This
>>> is a time of great opportunity and I tend to feel that it's a  
>>> time to
>>>
>>> make great choices and it's not if I should use Linux or Windows
>>> Vista. (OS X wins of course)
>>>
>>> Peace
>>>
>>> Duende
>>>
>>> ____________________________________
>>> The basis of life is Freedom
>>> The objective of life is Joy
>>> The result of life is Growth
>>> - Abraham, 1989
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sosfbay-discuss mailing list
>>> sosfbay-discuss at cagreens.org
>>> http://lists.cagreens.org/mailman/listinfo/sosfbay-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___________________
>>
>> JamBoi
>> The Green Parties' #1 Blogger
>> See http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=JamBoi
>>
>> The Celts invading the Italian Penninsula's reply when questioned
>> by the nervous Romans around 400BC
>> "To the brave belong all things"
>>
>> Jammy The Sacred Cow Slayer
>>
>> "Live humbly, laugh often and love unconditionally" (anon)
>> http://dailyJam.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________ 
>> _
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>
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