[Sosfbay-discuss] Dems won't try to limit Bush's power to attack Iran (AP)

[Duende]

I'm uncomfortable with the label of liberal or even progressive  
anymore. I'm more prone to use the label "humanist". Let me define  
humanist as someone concerned with the survival of the human race  
(self) and realizes that this survival requires cooperation as  
opposed to competition. A humanist recognizes or at least  
acknowledges the interdependence of all living thing and sees his  
survival as linked with the survival of others. Also, the word  
"humanist" make it pretty hard for the right to attack  and lets the  
observer know our deepest agenda.  Maybe one day we can have a 2  
party system. Humanists and Corporatists as opposed to the one party  
system we now have. I see the Greens as a perfect vehicle for  
humanists though it doesn't seem to roll very well at times. Ideally  
humanists will ride up in every "party".

That said, my take is that no true humanist in the Democratic party  
would "give in" to pressure at this point or at any point before or  
after 9-11. There's always been too much on the table. Those that do  
cave in were never really humanist. They were just posing using the  
guise of liberal. They may have been deceiving themselves but it's a  
deception non the less. However it's a deception that most on this  
list were aware of.  I'm glad that there are a few humanists running  
around capitol hill, but their voices are muted and their survival as  
main stream politicians pretty much in jeopardy.

Why?

Because the population itself doesn't identify itself as humanist.  
Far too many in or society think it's perfectly alright to impose our  
will as a country on another country that is lesser in their minds  
than were are. We think it's reasonablr for other peoples children to  
work in sweat shops since their lives are already pathetic and  
they're used to suffering. This is also done on the individual basis.  
When we Greens think we're morally superior to a flag waver from the  
mid west (or Central Valley) we become part of the problem. It  
happens when we judge any human being, even Cheney and Bush, as being  
less than human at some level. It happens to everyone. If you've  
never fallen for this in your life please step forward and announce  
your self to the crowd.(I'll want to see the holes in your hands  
( wrists for the historian)) If you've managed to stop doing this,  
please share how you did so. If this is a conscious struggle in your  
life then gOD bless.

Becoming the change that you want to see is a lot more than just  
recycling and riding a bike.

Peace

Duende




On Mar 13, 2007, at 12:43 PM, Gerry Gras wrote:

>
> Framing is important.
>
> If you read this casually, you could say that the
> right's thinking is reasonable.  That what they are
> saying is that they don't want [our side] to have its
> hands tied in its diplomacy with the other.
>
> But the attempted Congressional action was not to
> take any options completely off the table, but to
> say that the Administration could not attack Iran
> without Congress's approval.  So the liberal Dems
> are supporting the Constitution while the Reps and
> conservative Dems are saying let's give full authority
> to the Bush Administration, never mind their past
> track record, never mind the Constitution.
>
> And now apparently the liberal Dems are giving in.
>
> ...
>
> It looks like the most likely scenario is one all too
> common in history,  Two sides do saber rattling in the
> attempt to get the other side to "cooperate" (i.e.
> give in), the rhetoric escalates, then one side says
> it is hopeless, we must attack before they do, and
> war ensues, and one or both sides lose big time.
>
> Of course in this case it will be the U.S. or Israel
> that will attack, and Iran, Israel, and the U.S. will
> all suffer.  Unless ...
>
> Gerry
>
>
> JamBoi wrote:
>
>>  Dems won't try to limit Bush's power to attack Iran (AP)
>> Date:	 Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>> Dems abandon war authority provision
>>
>> By DAVID ESPO and MATTHEW LEE, Associated Press
>> Writers
>> March 12, 2007
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070312/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq
>>
>>
>> WASHINGTON - Top House Democrats retreated Monday
>> from an attempt to limit President Bush's
>> authority for taking military action against Iran
>> as the leadership concentrated on a looming
>> confrontation with the White House over the Iraq
>> war.
>>
>> Officials said Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other
>> members of the leadership had decided to strip
>> from a major military spending bill a requirement
>> for Bush to gain approval from Congress before
>> moving against Iran.
>>
>> Conservative Democrats as well as lawmakers
>> concerned about the possible impact on
>> Israel had argued for the change in strategy.
>>
>> The developments occurred as Democrats pointed
>> toward an initial test vote in the House
>> Appropriations Committee on Thursday on the
>> overall bill, which would require the withdrawal
>> of U.S. combat troops from Iraq by Sept. 1, 2008,
>> if not earlier. The measure provides nearly $100
>> billion to pay for fighting in two wars, and
>> includes more money than the president requested
>> for operations in Afghanistan and what Democrats
>> called training and equipment shortages.
>>
>> The White House has issued a veto threat against
>> the bill, and Vice President Dick Cheney attacked
>> its supporters in a speech, declaring they "are
>> telling the enemy simply to watch the clock and
>> wait us out."
>>
>> House GOP Leader John Boehner of Ohio issued a
>> statement that said Democrats shouldn't count on
>> any help passing their legislation. "Republicans
>> will continue to stand united in this debate, and
>> will oppose efforts by Democrats to undermine the
>> ability of General Petraeus and our troops to
>> achieve victory in the Global War on Terror," he
>> said.
>>
>> Top Democrats had a different perspective.
>>
>> Pelosi issued a written statement that said the
>> vice president's remarks prove that "the
>> administration's answer to continuing violence in
>> Iraq is more troops and more treasure from the
>> American people."
>>
>> Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said
>> in a statement that America was less safe today
>> because of the war. The president "must change
>> course, and it's time for the Senate to demand he
>> do it," he added.
>>
>> The Iran-related proposal stemmed from a desire
>> to make sure Bush did not launch an attack
>> without going to Congress for approval, but drew
>> opposition from numerous members of the rank and
>> file in a series of closed-door sessions last
>> week.
>>
>> Rep. Shelley Berkley, D-Nev., said in an
>> interview there is widespread fear in Israel
>> about Iran, which is believed to be seeking
>> nuclear weapons and has expressed unremitting
>> hostility about the Jewish state.
>>
>> "It would take away perhaps the most important
>> negotiating tool that the U.S. has when it comes
>> to Iran," she said of the now-abandoned
>> provision.
>>
>> "I didn't think it was a very wise idea to take
>> things off the table if you're trying to get
>> people to modify their behavior and normalize it
>> in a civilized way," said Rep. Gary Ackerman of
>> New York.
>>
>> Several officials said there was widespread
>> opposition to the proposal at a closed-door
>> meeting last week of conservative and moderate
>> Democrats, who said they feared tying the hands
>> of the administration when dealing with an
>> unpredictable and potentially hostile regime in
>> Tehran.
>>
>> Public opinion has swung the way of Democrats on
>> the issue of the war. More than six in 10
>> Americans think the conflict was a mistake -- the
>> largest number yet found in AP-Ipsos polling.
>>
>> But Democrats have struggled to find a compromise
>> that can satisfy both liberals who oppose any
>> funding for the military effort and conservatives
>> who do not want to unduly restrict the commander
>> in chief.
>>
>> "This supplemental should be about supporting the
>> troops and providing what they need," said Rep.
>> Dan Boren, D-Okla., on Monday upon returning from
>> a trip to Iraq. Boren said he plans to oppose any
>> legislation setting a clear deadline for troops
>> to leave.
>>
>> In his speech, Cheney chided lawmakers who are
>> pressing for tougher action on Iran to oppose the
>> president on the Iraq War.
>>
>> "It is simply not consistent for anyone to demand
>> aggressive action against the menace posed by the
>> Iranian regime while at the same time acquiescing
>> in a retreat from Iraq that would leave our worst
>> enemies dramatically emboldened and Israel's best
>> friend, the United States, dangerously weakened,"
>> he said.
>>
>> ___________________
>>
>> JamBoi
>> Jammy The Sacred Cow Slayer
>>
>> "Live humbly, laugh often and love unconditionally" (anon)
>> http://dailyJam.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
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"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is  
the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion  
is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in  
awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

Albert Einstein