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Hi Spencer,<br><br> Yes, many of the neighboring buildings were damaged by flying debris. The Deutsche Bank/Banker's Trust building <br>south across Liberty Street from the south tower had a huge gash ripped down its front and was abandoned and <br>ultimately torn down. The World Financial Center (WFC) across West Street had a multi-ton steel component <br>embedded in its wall, and perimeter column elements fell on the WFC Winter Garden as much as 550 feet away <br>from the tower's footprint. Steel debris also punched holes in the Verizon Building north across Vesey Street, and<br>apparently some hit World Trade Center 7 as well. David Chandler, a high school physics instructor has done a <br>frame-by-frame analysis of one of the videos and concludes that one steel structural component was hurled <br>horizontally at velocities exceeding 70 mph. Mr. Chandler believes these velocities reflect explosive expulsion <br>from the building. I'm reserving judgment on that, myself.<br><br> Much of the debris from the towers fell outside the footprint. I don't know if anyone has tried to quantify it. <br>It is unfortunate that the crime scene was scrubbed with no effort to map the site. Every steel assembly was<br>marked with a stamped ID number (to ensure that it was installed in the right place) and so a map of what<br>piece landed where would have been very useful in evaluating various collapse theories. According to the <br>official piledriver theory of Dr. Bazant, debris from the top "block" should have been all together at the top of<br>the debris pile. More widely scattered top debris would suggest a different collapse mechanism. The <br>official lead investigator, Shyam Sunder, told NOVA that the site was scrubbed because of the need for search<br>and rescue operations. This was a blatant lie. Rescue operations were terminated after a week, while the<br>scoop-and-dump evidence scrubbing went on for months over the protests of family members, firefighters,<br>and engineers who wanted a scientific study of the rubble. The cleanup was so careless that the intact<br>body of a man in a business suit was found in the rubble at Fresh Kills landfill across the river. <br><br> Debris from 47-story WTC7 did not range as far, but pretty much confined itself to a tidy pile that extended<br>across the streets from WTC7's footprint. The collapse did tear off some of the stone cladding from the <br>neighboring Verizon Building, and damaged Fiterman Hall of the Borough of Manhattan Community College.<br>The damage does not appear to be severe, but the building was eventually torn down. If Wikipedia can be<br>believed it stood until 2009 before it was torn down.<br><br> I think we need new investigations of what happened at Ground Zero because the official reports are incomplete.<br>Though NIST was charged with explaining why and how the buildings came down, they terminated their <br>analysis at the moment of collapse initiation, which allowed them to dodge the most baffling aspects of the<br>buildings' demise: the collapses' symmetry, speed, and totality; the pulverization of 180,000 tons of concrete <br>floors; the molten steel found in the rubble pile; and the collapse of the lower core, which had survived the initial<br>collapse of the outer floors.<br><br> I also think the reports are dishonest. Their initial estimates of airplane damage ranged from 1 core column<br>severed to 6 severed. When their moderate estimate of 3 failed to generate a collapse in their computer models, <br>they assumed the worst case scenario, and tweaked the input parameters to maximize damage to the core. They<br>threw out empirical studies of truss behavior under heating when the results were not dramatic enough for them.<br>They failed to follow up on FEMA's call for further study of "evaporated" steel, and went so far as to claim that the<br>evaporated sample did not exist. Their answer to questions admits that they terminated their computer model <br>at collapse initiation because after that their models failed to converge. Does that mean what I think it means?<br>That every time they ran their model it generated a chaotic asymmetrical and possibly partial collapse as the laws <br>of physics would predict? <br><br> In the Building 7 report Mr. Chandler forced them to admit that the structure came down at freefall acceleration <br>for a period of 2.25 seconds. NIST's Dr. Sunder had already stated that freefall means there was no structural <br>support at all. The near-perfect symmetry of the collapse requires that all the supporting structure be removed<br>simultaneously.<br><br> The video I recommended a week or so ago has now achieved over 300,000 views, and the viewing rate is<br>increasing. Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth now has 1500 architects and engineers calling for new <br>investigations--50 of them structural engineers, and 40 of them high rise architects.<br>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZEvA8BCoBw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZEvA8BCoBw</a></p>
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<br><br><br><br><br> <br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <br> <br><br> <br><br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 02:48:42 -0700<br>From: spencer.graves@prodsyse.com<br>To: snug.bug@hotmail.com<br>CC: pagesincolor@yahoo.com; cbrouillet@igc.org; sosfbay-discuss@cagreens.org<br>Subject: Re: [GPSCC-chat] 9/11 Reclaiming the Truth, Reclaiming Our Future<br><br>
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Hi, Brian: Thanks for this. According to Wikipedia ("World Trade
Center"), several surrounding buildings were damaged by debris. To
me, this raises questions about the claims that the buildings fell
straight down like a controlled demolition unless the collateral
damage was done from debris from the impact and / or a relatively
small portion of the mass of the 3 buildings that collapsed fell
outside their footprint. What do you know about this? Thanks,
Spencer <br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/7/2011 11:46 PM, Brian Good wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:BAY165-W41241BB4E48B01F6C1C9369E1E0@phx.gbl">
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<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans
MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"> There's a lot of confusion about the speed with
which the towers came down, and most of it emanates</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">from the official sources and the debunkers. The
lead investigator for NIST's $20 million study, Dr. Shyam</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">Sunder, told NOVA in 2006 that the towers came down
in 9 seconds and 11 seconds, which would be free </font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">fall. This comports with NIST's 2005 report
(Section 6.14.4 of NCSTAR 1) that says "the building section
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">above </font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><a name="perfunctory" target="_blank">came down essentially in free fall,
as seen in videos."
<br>
<br>
In August 2006 </a></font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">NIST issued a FAQ
statement saying that they had measured the time for debris
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">freefalling outside the building structure, finding
it struck the ground in 9 seconds and 11 seconds. </font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">I have looked for evidence of such a study and I
can not find it in the NIST report. "Debunkers" seize on</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">this statement in the FAQs and try to deny that Dr.
Sunder told NOVA what he said, and that the NIST report</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">says what it says, claiming they were talking about
the external debris. </font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"> The Section 6.14.4 statement in context is
clearly referring not to external debris, but to the upper
section</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic
Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">of the building falling through the undamaged lower
structure: </font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><em>"Since
the stories below the level of collapse <br>
initiation provided little
resistance to the tremendous energy released by the
falling building
mass, the building <br>
section above came down essentially in free fall, as
seen in videos. As the stories below sequentially failed,<br>
the falling
mass increased, further increasing the demand on the
floors below,
which were unable to arrest <br>
the moving mass.”</em></font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><em><font style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</font></em></font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"> Dr. Sunder's statement is clearly about the
buildings, not falling debris.</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"> David Chandler, a high school physics teacher,
has studied the collapse videos frame by frame and finds</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">that the acceleration involved was 2/3 that of a
gravitational collapse, not pure freefall. Even 2/3
freefall</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic
Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">is quite astounding, since by the 1st Law of
Thermodynamics, the potential energy of the elevated mass </font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">of the towers converted to kinetic energy of
falling debris must not only do the work of bringing the
debris </font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic
Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">to earth but also squishing, bending, and breaking
the steel structure, and pulverizing the 180,000 tons of </font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">concrete floors. NIST has never bothered to supply
an energetic analysis of the collapse.</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"> Mr. Chandler's studies have shown, as
acknowledged in NIST's final report, that Building 7 did
come </font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans
MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">down at freefall in the first 100 feet. NIST
tells us freefall means there is no supporting structure at
all.</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans
MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">For WTC7 to fall vertically in near-perfect
symmetry at freefall means all support had to be removed</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3">simultaneously.</font><font style="font-size:12pt" face="Comic Sans MS" size="3"><br>
</font><br>
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<div>
<hr id="ecxstopSpelling">Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 22:03:19 -0700<br>
From: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pagesincolor@yahoo.com">pagesincolor@yahoo.com</a><br>
To: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cbrouillet@igc.org">cbrouillet@igc.org</a>; <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sosfbay-discuss@cagreens.org">sosfbay-discuss@cagreens.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [GPSCC-chat] 9/11 Reclaiming the Truth,
Reclaiming Our Future<br>
<br>
<div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);background-color:rgb(255,\00000d\00000a 255, 255);font-family:times new roman,new\00000d\00000a york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="right:auto"><span style="right:auto">After
reading material from both sides, I have come to
believe that the twin towers could have come down at
free fall speed without a demolition process. The
buildings are very fragile compared to the forces
generated by even a small bump caused by the tops of
the towers on their way down. However, that doesn't
mean that 9/11 wasn't an inside job in some other
way. As an example, consider the reports of cell
phone conversations and voicemails recorded allegedly
from flight 93. One of the 9/11 truth web sites
claimed that someone had done a test to see if you
could get a cell phone carried aloft in a Cesna
aircraft at 200 mph and 8000 ft elevation to
communicate with the ground. The test was a complete
failure. No communication was established with the
ground during this test. This in my mind says that the
claims of cell phone communications by passengers of
flight 93 with places on the ground are false. Note
that nowadays some jumbo jets have the capability to
carry cell phone traffic while in the air, but this
capability did not exist in 2001. Good luck with your
presentations Carol. I will be out of town on both
dates.</span></div>
<div style="right:auto"><span style="right:auto"></span> </div>
<div style="right:auto"><span style="right:auto">John
Thielking</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new\00000d\00000a york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new\00000d\00000a york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><font face="Arial" size="2">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
Carol Brouillet <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cbrouillet@igc.org"><cbrouillet@igc.org></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sosfbay-discuss@cagreens.org">sosfbay-discuss@cagreens.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Sunday, September 4, 2011 4:50 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
[GPSCC-chat] 9/11 Reclaiming the Truth, Reclaiming
Our Future<br>
</font><br>
<div id="ecxyiv2003049602"><b>9/11 Reclaiming the
Truth, Reclaiming Our Future</b> - and the <b>Tenth
Annual 9/11 Truth Rally/Parade March </b>on <b>Sunday
September 11, 2011 </b>- Theme Satyagraha- The
Power of Truth....<br>
<br>
The annual 9/11 Truth Film Festival, benefit for the
Northern California 9/11 Truth Alliance begins<br>
this<b> Thursday, September 8th, 2011, 1 pm to 10
pm</b> at the <b>Grand Lake Theater </b>, 3200
Grand Ave. in Oakland<br>
and continues <br>
on <b>Sunday September 11th, 2011, 1 pm to 9:30 pm
</b>at the <b>Herbst Theatre</b>, 401 Van Ness Ave.
in San Francisco<br>
<br>
Speakers include-<br>
director of Project Censored <b>Mickey Huff</b>, <br>
president of the Media Freedom Foundation <b>Peter
Phillips</b>, <br>
sister of fallen firefighter David Weiss from Rescue
One and founder of Unite in Peace <b>Michele Little</b>,
<br>
author of <i>Mounting Evidence: Why We Need a New
Investigation of 9/11</i> <b>Dr. Paul Rea</b>, <br>
author of <i>Earth into Property: Colonization,
Decolonization, and Capitalism</i> <b>Prof.
Anthony J. Hall</b>, <br>
author of <i>Waking the Global Heart: Humanity's
Rites of Passage From the Love of Power to the
Power of Love </i><b>Anodea Judith</b>, <br>
author of <i>Building the Green Economy: Success
Stories from the Grassroots</i> <b>Kevin Danaher</b>,
<br>
author of <i>World as Love, World as Self - Courage
for Global Justice and Ecological Renewal</i> <b>Joanna
Macy</b>, <br>
filmmakers <b>Ken Jenkins</b> and <b>Brett Smith</b>,
<br>
Ironworkers Local 377 member <b>Mike Daly, <br>
</b>radio host of “Community Currency” <b>Carol
Brouillet,<br>
</b>music by<b> The Away Team</b>,<br>
MC at the Grand Lake Theater- radio host <b>Bonnie
Faulkner </b>from “Guns and Butter,”<br>
MC at the Herbst Theatre- comedian<b>Sherry
Glaser-Love,</b> the star and author of
Off-Broadway’s longest-running one-woman show,
“Family Secrets.”<br>
<br>
In addition to the films-<br>
“Psywar: The Real Battlefield Is the Mind,”<br>
“You, Me & the SPP: Trading Democracy for
Corporate Rule,”<br>
“Loose Change 9/11: An American Coup,”<br>
“Hypothesis: A Documentary about Prof. Stephen E.
Jones,”<br>
and the premiere Sunday evening of- “9/11:
Explosive Evidence Experts Speak Out,”<br>
there will be live streaming from the <b>Toronto
Hearings<br>
</b> and <b>One the Event- Shifting from Fear to
Love </b>from Seattle<br>
<br>
Full schedule and details at <a href="http://www.communitycurrency/filmfestival2011.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.communitycurrency/filmfestival2011.html<br>
</a>Tickets $10 & $7 (for students, seniors, low
income).<br>
Facebook event at- <a href="http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=269079389776199" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=269079389776199</a>
<br>
<br>
In addition the <b>10th Annual 9/11 Truth
Rally/March/Parade</b> will begin <br>
<b>Sunday, September 11, 2011<br>
</b>at <b>10 am</b> at the Gandhi Statue, near the
Ferry Building in San Francisco <br>
parading up Market Street to Halldie Plaza by <b>11
am,</b> and on to the Civic Center by<b> noon.<br>
</b>With words, poetry, music, along the way. See
details at <a href="http://communitycurrency.org/10thanniversary.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://communitycurrency.org/10thanniversary.html</a>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<pre class="ecxmoz-signature">--
Spencer Graves, PE, PhD
President and Chief Technology Officer
Structure Inspection and Monitoring, Inc.
751 Emerson Ct.
San José, CA 95126
ph: 408-655-4567
web: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.structuremonitoring.com" target="_blank">www.structuremonitoring.com</a>
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