[Sosfbay-discuss] spiritual progressives

[Tian Harter]

Roy wrote:

>Cameron L. Spitzer wrote:
>  
>
>>Rabbi Lerner may have run into the International
>>Socialist Organization faction of the SF Greens.
>>ISO's got a problem with spirituality and
>>religion.  "Religion is the opiate of the masses."
>>And they're so anti-Zionist that they come across
>>as antisemetic.  They've refused to let Rabbi Lerner
>>speak at the A.N.S.W.E.R rallies.
>>    
>>
>
>Religion IS the opiate of some masses when it takes the form of
>fundamentalism.. one of our major religions is consumerism, another is
>technology and of course those good old christianity and judaism in any
>of its forms. Did I mention sports :-)
>  
>
Baseball is definately a religion. Please notice, that at least
around here baseball is working very hard to be transit
friendly. Also notice that in baseball there is a very interesting
role for superstition. I've never had any luck trying to explain
it to either christians or jews. Not that I've ever tried that hard.
Not that I'm an expert.

Ever hear of the church of the sub genius? There is something
funny going on there....

>Saying that they are SO anti-Zionist that they appear antisemitic isn't
>saying much. Any questioning of Israel is met with large out crys of
>anti semitism by zionists and their supporters. Any discussion of their
>ability to mobilize and effect the body politic as well as the media is
>met with even more stringent crys of outrage. Since ANSWER rallies were
>focused on the middle east, allowing Lehrner to speak there would be
>rather hypocritical, as I used the analogy in my previous comments of
>asking a meat eater to speak at a conference for vegetarians.
>
>  
>
>>They won't recognize the Israeli peace movement.
>>    
>>
>
>I'm not aware of too many Israeli peace movements who start of with the
>assertion that Israel really doesn't have any "right" to be there to
>start with. This is the whole belief behind Zionism. Even Noam Chomsky,
>the saint of the progressives begins one of his talks declaring that we
>must start with the undeniable right of the State of Israel to exist.
>  
>
At the bookstore in downtown Mountain View, in the window,
there is a new DVD of Noam Chomsky. The title is "Rebel
Without a Pause." I'm thinking 'some gullible child is going
to get the impression Noam Chomsky never slept."

>I'm not saying that Israel should pushed into the sea, but for there to
>be real peace in the region the absolute wrong that's been done to
>Palestinians must be recognized and it never will be if every time we
>get any where near the truth screams of anti semitism rise up from the
>ranks of even the progressive movements. I used to think of people who
>spoke the way I just have as anti semitic...it took awhile for the
>realities and entrenchment of Zionism and it's supporters. Many
>supporters are Christians since the bible stories all depict the
>Israelites as these poor people who were chased from their land but were
>justified during the time of their rule to chop off the heads of sinners
>by the city full under the rule of David. One murderous dude.
>  
>
For me, all that biblical stuff happened long be fore the revolution
our founding fathers signed on to. I've heard it said that WW II
was the most clear cut case of an evil dictator running the show
in known history. When I try to put things into perspective, I
remind myself that there are many more people in India then
there are in Israel, even though their countries are about the
same age, as democracies go. I'm thinking that when democracy
play by play gets more sophisticated, the announcer will be able
to bring up statistics on war crimes and border violations and
so forth between countries as they parade across the national
stage. It'll be interesting to see how they factor in the different
religions and how spiritual they really are, as measured by
American eyes. I'm sure they will do a good job, if enough
ratings points are at stake. I'm hoping having lower stats for
war crimes is better, but you never know with these Republicans.

Seems to me that the Isrealis haven't been trying to develop
good karma for the day when the truth comes out. Ever heard
Allison Weir talk about how they make the American media give
us a false impression about what is going on over there?

>  
>
>>It's one of the ways their dogmatism has led them
>>to the political margins, alienating large groups
>>who should be their allies.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Funny.. I hear that about the Greens and that they're so fanatical they
>put trees before people. I had just recently had this thrown in my face
>and merely replied that the Greens are really a humanist party but have
>recognized the critical balance and our dependence on nature so that in
>defending trees we ARE defending ourselves. Regretfully that doesn't fit
>on a bumper sticker :-)
>
>  
>
You could fit all of the above on a bumper sticker. You just
couldn't expect the guy in the car behind you to read it at
65 MPH. Especially if he was following at a legal distance.

For spirtiual politics, consider this peice that got forwarded to
me via a quaker. It is so concretely political I'm lost trying to
find a disconnect in it, except that the author doesn't like Bush:

http://www.fcnl.org/smith/stateofunion06.htm

-- 
Tian
http://tian.greens.org
Latest change: Added my favorite moment from the State  
of the Union Adress last month. When I told my dad  
I had a favorite moment in that speech, he said "It's not  
possible to have a favorite moment from Bush." I didn't 
want to try and explain it was only my favorite turd.