[GPSCC-chat] Independence Epistle

[Spencer Graves]

On 7/4/2012 10:29 AM, Cameron L. Spitzer wrote:
>
> I see political arguments that depend on false assumptions way too 
> often.  It's a bad habit we should try to break, a habit that lets 
> nonsense sneak into the things people believe.  I've been seeing it a 
> lot in the comments on global warming stories.
>
>      "Without US troops in Saudi Arabia, the suicide mass murders of
>     September 11, 2001 would not have occurred."
>
> "If I were king, the moon would be made of cheese" is the common 
> example.  The sentence is true but it has no meaning, because I'm not 
> king.  Nothing that follows from a false assumption truly follows.  
> It's one of the non sequiturs ("it does not follow") the Greeks warned 
> us about.  "If Ralph Nader hadn't run in 2000, Gore would have won."  
> We don't know that.  Without Nader's pressure, Gore could have run 
> further to the right and lost by a landslide.
>
> Here a way to make Spencer's point without the false assumption. 
> "There's evidence that the presence of US troops in SA provoked Al 
> Queda into attacking the WTC."


       1.  Like you, Cameron, I usually avoid such absolute statements.  
In this case, I provided a footnote citing the most important evidence 
that I know supporting this claim, and I felt that the evidence cited 
there supported the stronger statement.  (I just polished that footnote 
in the copy of this note on the web at 
"http://occupy.pbworks.com/w/page/55119685/Liberty%20and%20Justice%20for%20All".) 
I read somewhere that the Bush administration effectively acknowledged 
this by removing all US troops from Saudi Arabia not too long after 
Sept. 11, 2001.  Checking just now, I found a Wikipedia article claiming 
that the US withdrew most troops in 2003, but a few remain, allegedly at 
Erskin Village, 20 km southeast of Riyadh.

       2.  I believe the available evidence makes my claim different 
from your two examples.


       3.  This was intended to be short -- and I admit it's polemical.  
It seems to me that it would lose its punch and brevity if it were 
reworded as you suggest.  I tried to compensate by including footnotes.  
Evidently, that was not adequate for you (and probably others).

>
> It's a pet peeve.  Thanks for your patience.


       Thanks for your comment.  Spencer

>
> -/Cameron in San Jos//é/
>
>
> On 07/04/2012 09:59 AM, Spencer Graves wrote:
>> A few of you may remember the polemic below from a year ago -- 
>> updated with footnotes.  Enjoy.  Spencer
>>
>>
>> *I Pledge Allegiance to Liberty and Justice for All *
>>
>>
>> I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all, not restricted to 
>> the flag of the United States of America nor to the republic for 
>> which it stands, because when we allow that restriction, we give 
>> license to media executives and politicians to support state terror 
>> internationally. Without US troops in Saudi Arabia, the suicide mass 
>> murders of September 11, 2001 would not have occurred.^1 
>> <#sdfootnote1sym> If the US had not given weapons of mass destruction 
>> to Saddam Hussein in the 1980s, he could not plausibly have had them 
>> in 2002.^2 <#sdfootnote2sym> US actions against democracy in 
>> countries around the world convinced generations of third world 
>> politicians that the US would not allow them put the interests of 
>> their people above the concerns of US multinational businesses.^3 
>> <#sdfootnote3sym> I know of no major enemy the US has other than ones 
>> we have earned by opposing liberty and justice for all. I pledge 
>> allegiance to liberty and justice for all.
>>
>>
>
>
>
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-- 
Spencer Graves, PE, PhD
President and Chief Technology Officer
Structure Inspection and Monitoring, Inc.
751 Emerson Ct.
San José, CA 95126
ph:  408-655-4567
web:  www.structuremonitoring.com

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