[GPSCC-chat] FW: Progressive Mag on voting third party

Sun Sep 2 12:08:49 PDT 2012

Commondeams has some interesting comments (I've boiled them down somewhat):

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/08/31-10

If we never show the
courage to buck the system there will NEVER be change.

Listen to Eugene Debs: It
is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for
what you don't want and get it.

Thomas Frank's latest
article in Harpers Magazine says:     "[We ask the] right—with
its mythology of heroic “job creators”—[to end unemployment].
It is the right that talks about the little people, about smashing
the cozy Beltway consensus, about bringing in a whole new crop of
leaders."

    "As I watched
this upside-down unrest emerge, I used to wonder how long it would
take Obama to switch on his inner FDR and start grappling with the
nation’s problems the way they obviously needed to be grappled
with.The years passed, and I finally realized that this was never
going to happen. Then a different possibility started to dawn on me:
Maybe a second New Deal is precisely what Obama was here to prevent.
Maybe that was the hope all along."

We're in the midst of a
four year depression. We have a right-wing Democratic President who
only pretended to do anything about it. The fat cats are doing fine.
Not one single prominent "progressive" Democrat had the
integrity to challenge Obama in the primaries.  The Republicans are
doing their level best to keep Obama in office. (It's possible that
NEITHER candidate really wants to be in charge for the next 4 years -
bad news for the rest of us.)

The USA's descent into
mercantile tyranny is truly naked. Corruption on this epic, operatic
scale destroys nations. Why do the oppressed love their oppressors?

Jonathan Turley, a civil
liberties scholar:
    "Obama has
violated his oath to uphold the Constitution. . . .   It is, in my
opinion, no excuse tovote for someone who has
violated core constitutional rights and civil liberties simply
because you believe the other side is no better. You cannot pretend
that your vote does not constitute at least a tacit approval of the
policies of the candidate."

The effect of Obama in the
White House has been to mute dissent of militarism and loss of civil
liberties. Had McCain been elected in '08 and done the same things as
Mr. Obama, dissent would be alive among Democrats. Instead, among
Democrats it simply does not exist. If the only possible winners are
a wolf and a wolf in sheep's clothing, I personally would rather the
naked wolf wins.

Should I subscribe to a
publication (The Progressive)that matches my interests and beliefs in
order to be a better informed, more effective citizen/activist; or
should I subscribe to a more mainstream publication like Newsweek
that will provide access to info that promotes career advancement and
more lucrative economic opportunities?

    Say no to both
parties...
    The Ron Paul
libertarians left the GOP convention tuesday and they will support
Gary Johnson...    Perhaps if enough votes can be bled from the two
corrupt parties change can happen. 

A Green Party friend
running for the state legislature in a conservative rural district is
finding unexpected reservoirs of rage in the boonies - people who
normally vote Republican.

    Should we all worry
that if we don't vote for Mussolini, Hitler could take over? No
thanks. If you want war crimes, spying, bank fraud, corruption and
bribery to be the forces running the country vote for a Democrat or
Republican and you win either way.

Obama hasn't earned my
vote, and the Democratic party is just as much in hock to the
corporate powers that be as the Republicans.  Obama doesn't give a
damn about any of us. And voting for him is voting against your own
best interests in the long run, and prolonging the misery by
continuing to prop up this rancid, corrupt and evil system.Now is the
time for courage, as Jill Stein says.

The more people vote for
the "lesser evil" the more evil government becomes.  Stop
cooperating with this system of crime and corruption.

Obama is the more
effective of the two evils because the democrats won't oppose him
because he is one of theirs.

I will not be complicit in
evil, neither the lesser nor the greater.

"Lesser evil" is
for those who believe that voting for things to get worse will help
them.  Thus decade after decade, our country has slid further off the
cliff. 

Voting either R/D is not
going to change anything.

Obamacare is really
Romneycare.  There is no reason to expect Romney to be significantly
different from Obama - except that a lot of Democrats who defend
Obama would fight him, as they did Bush.

Obama is just as much of a
warmonger, if not more so, than Romney.

If drone strikes on non
combatants is not "evil incarnate" what is? 

If ALL other candidates
were given media coverage and invited into the debates, as would
happen in a REAL democracy, then I believe the tide could be turned.

If, perchance, Stein gets
credit for sinking Obama, as Ralph Nader did to Al Gore, The message
has to be that the Dems had bettter pay atention to what the Green
presidential candidate is saying. 

When I vote Green I help
to insure that the better choice will have a chance to retain ballot
status, to grow as a party and to eventually become a voice and a
force to be reckoned with.  I now feel a lightness of spirit, knowing
I am forever free of the burden of evil, lesser or not.

> Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 10:02:18 -0700
> From: spencer.graves at prodsyse.com
> To: gerrygras at earthlink.net
> CC: sosfbay-discuss at cagreens.org
> Subject: Re: [GPSCC-chat] Progressive Mag on voting third party
> 
>        "The Progressive" is available in electronic format at the King 
> library, at least according to their electronic catalog.  I take a USB 
> drive to the library and get many articles like that in PDF format.  
> Occasionally, the system defeats me, but this usually works.
> 
> 
>        Spencer
> 
> 
> On 8/31/2012 11:55 AM, Gerry Gras wrote:
> >
> > Matthew Rothschild, editor of The Progressive magazine,
> > asks whether or not it is better to vote third party.
> > Apparently, he does not answer it.  Apparently to read
> > the full article, you need to read the (paper) magazine.
> > This is only a short except:
> >
> >     http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/08/31-10
> >     http://www.progressive.org/third-party-dilemma
> >
> > It says a little bit about Jill Stein.  And here are
> > the last 2 paragraphs:
> >
> > ========================
> >
> > Or do you—do I?—vote for Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson (or choose not 
> > to vote for President at all, as my predecessor, Erwin Knoll opted to 
> > do, not wanting to give his consent to the entire system), believing 
> > that only by staking out a real leftwing alternative are we ever going 
> > to move people toward the humane, peaceful, green, and egalitarian 
> > society we seek?
> >
> > There is no easy way out of this trap, and I’m not going to spring you 
> > from it.
> >
> > ========================
> >
> >
> > I guess it might be a good idea to read the full article,
> > to prepare for what liberal Democrats might say.  I hope
> > to read it at my local library.
> >
> > Gerry
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://lists.cagreens.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sosfbay-discuss
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Spencer Graves, PE, PhD
> President and Chief Technology Officer
> Structure Inspection and Monitoring, Inc.
> 751 Emerson Ct.
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> 
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