[GPSCC-chat] The Greatest Generation?

Thu Nov 14 10:45:44 PST 2013

Thanks for your comments, Eric. My problem with McCarthyism is not simply with its followers, it is with the whole political environment it created, where economic cooperation and community were banished from political discourse, as was any possibility of peace with socialist countries. This led to Korea, Iran, Guatemala, Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, etc. Even if Truman and Johnson were not immediate followers of McCarthy, they followed his paradigm that peace with communists was not an option.

I do not think there is anything about communism (in the sense of a cooperative economy) that is inherently totalitarian. In fact, I believe it corresponds 100% with the Green values you enumerate. Personally, I am a Christian and I find that the ideal of a cooperative economy is fully consistent with my values (see Acts chapter 2). On the other hand, I find capitalism is rather abhorrent. The whole idea of depriving one group of people of their means of subsistence in order to force them to work for another (for the other's profit) is wrong and actually not consistent with Green values as I understand them.

I also understand that the Greens include a wide range of views. I respect that and enjoy the discussion.

Sandy

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Meece <eric at philosopherswheel.com>
To: sosfbay-discuss <sosfbay-discuss at cagreens.org>
Sent: Wed, Nov 13, 2013 11:25 am
Subject: Re: [GPSCC-chat] The Greatest Generation?

Good comments Sandy. I agree      generations blaming ewach other is useless. I do point the finger      at the people though; it is up to them not to be misled, and it      shouldn't be that difficult. McCarthyism could be cited correctly      for blame on the war policies, although it was also because the      military industrial complex responded habitually to communist      threats (Truman and Johnson were not followers of McCarthy, but      they did follow the complex's interests). Communism had some good      points about controlling runaway capitalist greed, but its      totalitarian methods and materialist values don't make it a viable      method at all. But a better balance between socialism and      capitalism that creates real rather than phony "freedom" and      unequal prosperity, is being proposed now, and in the next      decade-plus it will be put forward by Greens and others. 

      The Green values and platforms are an excellent roadmap of where      we need to go. Green represents an advance on both democratic      capitalism and socialism, taking the best of both and creating a      new synthesis beyond the Marxist one. It respects the spiritual      and inherent values of life, and brings individual freedom and      collective responsibility into an ecology-like interaction and      inter-dependence, like the person and the environment nourishing      each other.

      Eric the Green

      On 11/11/2013 5:44 PM, perrysandy at aol.com wrote:

I think it is wrong and actually            divisive for generations to point the finger at each other            and cast blame. The blame lies with the corporate capitalist            system, not with the American people who have been misled by            politicians, the corporate media, and our            corporate-controlled education system.  The "greatest            generation" WAS great - how many of us would leave our            families and communities for four or five years and risk our            lives to defend what they understood was democracy and            freedom?

The greatest generation was ruined by McCarthyism pure and          simple. Political debate in America, which thrived from the          late 19th century (and earlier) up through the early 1940s,          was effectively ended. Communists, socialists, and their          "fellow-travelers" were hounded out of Hollywood, the print          media, radio, and every available means of communication, not          to mention unions, community organizations, cultural groups,          and even social clubs. When the left was shut out of the          debate - as surely as Jill Stein and Cheri Honkala were shut          out of the presidential debates - no wonder the result was war          and "mindless patriotism".

We still suffer from McCarthyism today, where millions of          people continue to believe communism is a "criminal          conspiracy" as Nixon called it, rather than a viable and          idealistic alternative to our broken economy. It is up to us          to not be afraid to put forward radical solutions to society's          problems. I joined the Greens because they are not afraid to          be different - as they say, the color of courage is green. 

I think conditions today are actually more favorable than          ever for proposing a new economic paradigm. For most people in          the greatest generation, capitalism actually worked (see          "Capitalism - A Love Story"). Now it is broken, failing to          provide a living for millions and failing to protect the          environment. It is time for people like us to step forward and          change the world!

Sandy

-----Original Message-----
          From: Brian <snug.bug at hotmail.com>
          To: sosfbay-discuss <sosfbay-discuss at cagreens.org>
          Sent: Mon, Nov 11, 2013 10:05 am
          Subject: [GPSCC-chat] The Greatest Generation?

I was inclined to think so until                      I recognized that they were not even 

smart enough to put wheels and a                      collapsible handle on their luggage

--why should they be when Red                      Caps did all that for them?  Of course 

my  disillusionment with the                      Greatest doesn't change my evaluation of 

the Shittiest, my deGeneration,                      the one that climbed with                          Martin 

Luther King out                      of the abyss to peer from the ridgetop, and then                      stepped

back from the brink of the                      Promised Land to settle for cocaine and 

luxury SUVs and McMansions                      instead of making the dream true.

We did succeed in preventing the                      war against Nicaragua, and probably 

we aided the liberation of South                      America such that US-backed torturers 

can now be prosecuted in Chile                      and Argentina, and victims of US -backed 

torturers could become                      presidents in Chile (Bachelet), Uruguay (Mujica) 

and Brazil (da Silva and                      Rouseff).   But Hollywood wars in Grenada and 

Panama and Kuwait enable the                      propagandists to claim we accomplished 

nothing, and that claim enabled                      the current crop of corrupt wars that 

continue today in Bush's fourth                      term.

Here's Professor Francis Boyle's                      poetic rant:

The Greatest Generation?

Oh really?

If they were so great

Then why did they send

Their Sons so willingly

Off to die                    

In Vietnam

A war  they started

While we suffered from

58,000 young men

Of my generation

Were murdered                    

By The Greatest Generation

Hundreds of Thousands

Of our Lives were destroyed

Plus                     3 million genocided Vietnamese

Not that “gooks” mattered to The                      Greatest Generation

Then  neither did we their Sons                    

Why  didn’t The Greatest                      Generation

Rise up as One

And tell the American Empire

That you will not have our Sons

Over our dead bodies!

Hell no!

They will not go!

Why did The Greatest Generation

Not fight for US their Sons                    

Against the American Empire

As they did against the German                     and  Japanese Empires

We the Sons of the Greatest                      Generation were not worth it

They said they were liberating                      Peoples in Foreign Lands

Then why did The Greatest                      Generation send   their Sons

To fight and die

In that God-forsaken Land?

And to murder millions living in                      their own                    Land?

Was this some blood-sport

we had to play

With them as  pony riders

and US  as  buzkashi goat                      carcasses

Was it  reverse Freudian Oedipal                      Complex

Them killing us off

before we got to  them

And took their place

Were we  blood-sacrifice to                      Moloch

With them as  Priests

And we as  sacrificial lambs

Were they our   Abrahams

Actually murdering  US  their                       Isaacs

In  a Holocaust

To their  Genocidal Yahweh

Hard to say

What was going on

In the Minds of The Greatest                      Generation

If anything at all

Mindless Patriotism                    

The last refuge of them                      Scoundrels!

They knew all about War

then sent their Sons marching                      off

 Into the Valley of Death

Charge of the Light Brigade

The result was predictable                    

A Decimated Generation

A Shattered Generation

MY GENERATION!

BUT WE ENDED THEIR DAMN WAR!

The Greatest Generation?

Hell no!

A Pathetic Generation!

May they  ever be  tormented

By Their Own  Son’s  Souls

Professor Francis A. Boyle 

Francis                      A. Boyle

Law                      Building

504                      E. Pennsylvania Ave.

Champaign,                      IL 61820 USA

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