[Sosfbay-discuss] Fwd: How Greens helped Gore win the 2000 election

[Drew Johnson]

Its worth listening to if you get a chance.
http://www.truthdig.com/podcast/item/20071009_robert_scheer_debates_ralph_nader/

It's focused on their disagreement about third parties.  Scheer is arguing
that the Dems are where all the focus for struggle needs to be and he
maintains that there's an actual difference between the Dems and Repubs. 
Nader is talking about the lack of difference between the parties, how the
Duopoly needs to be challenged by third party action and that the Dems
have accomplished nothing significant vs the Repubs.

Nader: "The similarities between the two parties tower over the dwindling
real differences their willing to fight over."


Green is Core!

Drew


On Mon, October 22, 2007 18:42, Fred Duperrault wrote:
> On what did Nader and Scheer disagree?  I agree with most of what they
> both say.
>
> Fred
>
> I call Gore the former 'President in Exile' since he won the 2000 election
>   before he and the Dems allowed the Republicans to steal it away from him
> and more importantly from The People. Here's how we Greens helped him win.
> For the next time you here some smack about Nader 2000 here's some facts.
>
>
> Green is Core!
>
> Drew Johnson
> GPCA
>
> ---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: [G-C-F] Nader 2000 mobilization effect erased spoiler effect
> From:    "Chuck Giese"
> Date:    Mon, October 22, 2007 14:27
> To:      "greens cal forum"
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Folks,
>
> Over the weekend I listened to the recent
> debate between Robert Scheer and Ralph Nader
> on one of those cruises sponsored by The
> Nation magazine.  This debate was brought to
> G-C-F's attention by Lisa Taylor on Oct. 11.
> (Thank you, Lisa.)  She provided this link:
>
>
> http://www.truthdig.com/podcast/item/20071009_robert_scheer_debates_ralph_nader/
>
> In the debate, Nader refers to a study by
> Solon Simmons that investigated the effect
> of Nader's presence in the race in mobilizing
> voters who otherwise would not have voted.
> He concludes that "Nader actually helped Gore
> to do better than he would have in some cases
> by mobilizing voters who were then captured
> by the Gore ticket in the campaign's closing
> weeks."
>
> This means that Nader's net spoiler effect
> was probably non-existent, and that Nader
> probably generated a net GAIN in votes for
> Gore, that Gore would not have received if
> Nader had not been a candidate!  Simmons'
> data suggest that not only would Gore have
> lost Florida and New Hampshire by wider
> margins without Nader in the race, but that
> Gore might even have lost Wisconsin and New
> Mexico without Nader in the race!
>
> -----
>
> In the debate with Scheer, Nader mentions
> that this study by Solon Simmons can be found
> at votenader.org.  Unfortunately, that link
> is broken, because Simmons has moved to a new
> job at a different university.  But I found
> the study in MS Word format.  The Google
> search result also had a "convert to HTML"
> option, to read it in your browser instead
> of as a Word document.  (If you read it as
> HTML, however, the bar graph gets lost.)
>
> This document is not just the Simmons article,
> but a short political journal with a few
> articles.  The Solon Simmons article is:
> "One in Ten Thousand: Ralph Nader Takes on
> the Presidency".
>
>
> URL (MS Word version):
>
> http://www.uwosh.edu/political_science/word/Wisconsin_Political_Scientist_Summer_2004.doc
>
>
> URL (HTML with missing bar graph):
>
> http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:jQIR-IaszaMJ:www.uwosh.edu/political_science/word/Wisconsin_Political_Scientist_Summer_2004.doc+%22Solon+Simmons%22+Green+vote+Democrats&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us&client=mozilla
>
> (This last URL may not last long, as the document is in Google's cache.)
>
>
> Enjoy,
> Chuck Giese
>
> Fremont, Calif.
> _______________________________________________
> cal-forum mailing list
> cal-forum at cagreens.org
> http://lists.cagreens.org/mailman/listinfo/cal-forum
>
> _______________________________________________
> sosfbay-discuss mailing list
> sosfbay-discuss at cagreens.org
> http://lists.cagreens.org/mailman/listinfo/sosfbay-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sosfbay-discuss mailing list
> sosfbay-discuss at cagreens.org
> http://lists.cagreens.org/mailman/listinfo/sosfbay-discuss
>


-- 
JamBoi
http://www.greencommons.org/blog/63
"Peaceable: the ability to interact peacefully.  A skill set similar to
social or emotional intelligence that is unfortunately rare in today's
American culture, but can be developed by all.  The Green Parties need to
lead the way in Peaceableness."